Tangerine Dream

Hipgnosis wrote:Hi,

Weird ... did you list Mozart's worst pieces? Wagner's? How about Beatles?

An artist is an artist, and we either appreciate thm as such or we don't. That you like the Blue period and don't like the Pink Period and think Guernica is off its rocker, is your personal opinion, and that has nothing to do with "worst" at all.

Now, you be TD for a minute and then read your comments again! I bet you would feel really good.

But that's not the point.

You either respect the artist for their work in its entirety, or go kiss some other top ten group out there and leave this board! Very simple!

I can not, honestly, say, that there are any pieces I dislike in TD! PERIOD!

You know what? I don't agree at all. I'm a TD fan but I reserve the right to speak out about stuff of theirs that I don't like.

This is not North Korea.

We can't like everything. I freely admit that the 1990s is the decade of TD's I like the least. I understand there are many fans who love the band's output during that decade, but I have to cherry pick, and I come up with much less versus the two previous decades. Recent years saw albums released that were more pleasing to my ears.

Some people like the Froese-Franke-Baumann trio the best. Mine is Froese-Franke-Schmoelling, but the configs with both Baumann and Haslinger are excellent for different reasons. All produced many, many hours of fantastic music, as did other-line-ups.

Some people think TD "lost the plot" after their first three most experimental albums. I cannot gauge such a perspective, but...different strokes.

PurpleTwilight wrote:Just for kicks, I decided to listen to "Turning Off The Wheel" right now. It's not awful, but I'd need to be in the right mood to appreciate it. Someone once hinted that it's one of Edgar's compositions, and I must say I believe it.

It's certainly one of his, as is "Valley of the Kings" on Lily. Edgar definitely had his own sound, as one would say.

Jon wrote: ...
You know what? I don't agree at all. I'm a TD fan but I reserve the right to speak out about stuff of theirs that I don't like.

This is not North Korea.

You're missing the point! You can not live by anyone else's thoughts and ideas. If you don't like it, and I will still would do my next piece of work, regardless, of you liking it or not.

But in the age of twit'er and everything else, everyone has an opinion! And all wwe're doing is intimidating youngsters from learning more about their art and get better ... and that is not what you and I and anyone else want to do.

You must see that ... it's the same thing as telling a 4 year old ... that's terrible, when they tried to play a piano, and you just ruined their ability to ever learn how to play it or find anything in it at all! It's "criminal" as another artist would say!

It might not be my favorite, but it will be someone else's ... and I find it best not to say anything, but we're doing our best to shut the artists because we don't like 3 notes or chords?

Crazy!

Network23 wrote: ...
Some people like the Froese-Franke-Baumann trio the best. Mine is Froese-Franke-Schmoelling, but the configs with both Baumann and Haslinger are excellent for different reasons. All produced many, many hours of fantastic music, as did other-line-ups.

Some people think TD "lost the plot" after their first three most experimental albums. I cannot gauge such a perspective, but...different strokes.

I am not so sure about that. I think the music was much more tied to the instruments than anything else, and in those days, to create a sound was not easy, and today the string sound is already there and you have to just add whatever effects you want to them! Major difference in application of the work, and this is the reason why the early concerts were so valuable ... they were all different as you could not do the same thing every night!

It's easy to say that the artists got lazier as the time went by, and the instruments got "dumb'er", but I think that many folks had already burned out on the "space" idea and sound, and it was time for something else.

Today's stuff can do yesterday's music, but yesterday's stuff would not be ablel to do today's music as well as we think. Thus, our looks at these things comparing apples to oranges, is a bit weird for my point of view.

Hipgnosis wrote:

Jon wrote: ...
You know what? I don't agree at all. I'm a TD fan but I reserve the right to speak out about stuff of theirs that I don't like.

This is not North Korea.

You're missing the point! You can not live by anyone else's thoughts and ideas. If you don't like it, and I will still would do my next piece of work, regardless, of you liking it or not.

But in the age of twit'er and everything else, everyone has an opinion! And all wwe're doing is intimidating youngsters from learning more about their art and get better ... and that is not what you and I and anyone else want to do.

You must see that ... it's the same thing as telling a 4 year old ... that's terrible, when they tried to play a piano, and you just ruined their ability to ever learn how to play it or find anything in it at all! It's "criminal" as another artist would say!

It might not be my favorite, but it will be someone else's ... and I find it best not to say anything, but we're doing our best to shut the artists because we don't like 3 notes or chords?

Crazy!

Well, that's your opinion. And I don't think I'm missing the point. I'm not talking about youngsters and a 4-year old, I'm talking about the entire recorded output of TD.

Long live the serious music reviewer. It's highly subjective, yes, but nevertheless an opinion we all should respect.

A wise man said "speak for yourself". Take notice of that.

Hey, gang!

EVERYONE has an opinion about EVERYTHING. That is just HUMAN NATURE.

TD's music, just like movies, works of art, types of food, etc., etc, are entirely SUBJECTIVE.

There is no "good" or "bad" or "this is better than that".

We each subject ourselves to what we like and enjoy.

It's like a buffet-style restaurant. We each take what we like best. If I don't like the veal, but someone else does, then let HIM eat it! I'll go for the chicken, if that's what I like best!

SO WHAT?!

If we ALL had the same opinions and tastes, this world would be a boring place!

Let's not bicker and argue.

Let's ALL agree that we are participants on this forum because we LOVE Tangerine Dream. It doesn't matter which line-up or which decade we like better. We all love Tangerine Dream for our own various reasons. Let's celebrate the fact that such an amazing band has brought us so much diversity over the years!

Peace!

RAYMAN1970 wrote:Hey, gang!

EVERYONE has an opinion about EVERYTHING. That is just HUMAN NATURE.

TD's music, just like movies, works of art, types of food, etc., etc, are entirely SUBJECTIVE.

There is no "good" or "bad" or "this is better than that".

We each subject ourselves to what we like and enjoy.

It's like a buffet-style restaurant. We each take what we like best. If I don't like the veal, but someone else does, then let HIM eat it! I'll go for the chicken, if that's what I like best!

SO WHAT?!

If we ALL had the same opinions and tastes, this world would be a boring place!

Let's not bicker and argue.

Let's ALL agree that we are participants on this forum because we LOVE Tangerine Dream. It doesn't matter which line-up or which decade we like better. We all love Tangerine Dream for our own various reasons. Let's celebrate the fact that such an amazing band has brought us so much diversity over the years!

Peace!

Well said Rayman

"Long live the serious music reviewer. It's highly subjective, yes, but nevertheless an opinion we all should respect."

I respect everyone's right to their opinion, so long as they realise that is exactly that......an opinion, not 100% fact and that other opinions are available (to use a quote from somewhere )

I loved the 70's TD. I loved even more the 80's TD (especially 80 to 85). I liked Melrose very much but was not so keen on the 91 to 95 (ish) period. Have liked a lot of the releases from 96 to 2014 and I can honestly say that there is nothing by TD that I have ever hated. It is all down to personal taste as to which things you rate higher than others. The reason I have remained such a massive TD fan for 44 years is because they were/are forever changing and reinventing themselves. If they had stuck with the 'machines' from the 70's right up to now, I would have probably given up with them ages ago, but I am sure others will disagree. That's life. The great thing is that we all have taken something from this amazing band over the years that has, I am sure, made our lives that much more enjoyable, and for that we can all be eternally grateful!! Thank you so much Edgar and all the other members of the band over the years. Your brilliance has made this planet a real joy to be on and your music washes away all the bad things that we hear about day-in, day-out. Long live Tangerine Dream.

RAYMAN1970 wrote:Hey, gang!

EVERYONE has an opinion about EVERYTHING. That is just HUMAN NATURE.

TD's music, just like movies, works of art, types of food, etc., etc, are entirely SUBJECTIVE.

There is no "good" or "bad" or "this is better than that".

We each subject ourselves to what we like and enjoy.

It's like a buffet-style restaurant. We each take what we like best. If I don't like the veal, but someone else does, then let HIM eat it! I'll go for the chicken, if that's what I like best!

SO WHAT?!

If we ALL had the same opinions and tastes, this world would be a boring place!

Let's not bicker and argue.

Let's ALL agree that we are participants on this forum because we LOVE Tangerine Dream. It doesn't matter which line-up or which decade we like better. We all love Tangerine Dream for our own various reasons. Let's celebrate the fact that such an amazing band has brought us so much diversity over the years!

Peace!

This. 100%.

If it weren't for opinions, no-one would ever talk to anyone, either in discussion forums or in real life

Very well put Rayman

moonloop wrote:

RAYMAN1970 wrote:Hey, gang!

EVERYONE has an opinion about EVERYTHING. That is just HUMAN NATURE.

TD's music, just like movies, works of art, types of food, etc., etc, are entirely SUBJECTIVE.

There is no "good" or "bad" or "this is better than that".

We each subject ourselves to what we like and enjoy.

It's like a buffet-style restaurant. We each take what we like best. If I don't like the veal, but someone else does, then let HIM eat it! I'll go for the chicken, if that's what I like best!

SO WHAT?!

If we ALL had the same opinions and tastes, this world would be a boring place!

Let's not bicker and argue.

Let's ALL agree that we are participants on this forum because we LOVE Tangerine Dream. It doesn't matter which line-up or which decade we like better. We all love Tangerine Dream for our own various reasons. Let's celebrate the fact that such an amazing band has brought us so much diversity over the years!

Peace!

This. 100%.

If it weren't for opinions, no-one would ever talk to anyone, either in discussion forums or in real life

Very well put Rayman

One man's treasure is another man's trash (or woman's.....)

Hear! Hear!

"worst" doomed from the start. Yes, we all have preferences and tracks we don't enjoy - I HATE Cinnamon Road.

Worst is objective while we can only all be subjective.

So perhaps a better subject would have been "What tracks do you not like?" and then so what.

Thanks for the kind words, folks.

Listen, I'm not here to judge or mediate. We are all here because of our love for such an amazing and unique band that has provided the soundtrack to our hearts and lives.

Our opinions are our OWN and no one can change that....and that's OK.

We love what we love and we dislike what we dislike. That shouldn't hurt or offend anyone. If you absolutely despise a track that I love, it doesn't change or diminish how I feel about that particualr track and, chances are, it probably won't change YOUR feelings about that track either.

I will say this:

There have been some albums or tracks that I have disliked, but after reading YOUR thoughts and opinions, I went back and listened to these releases with a new set of ears and gained a new appreciation for some of them.

What a great gift that TD and this forum has given to us.

Peace.

Over the years, I've grown to tolerate most of the songs I mentioned in this thread. It's becoming increasingly difficult to name another song I dislike, although there are possibly several that simply don't do much for me. I guess one example would be "Desert Train" from Melrose. It's not bad, but neither does it warrant a repeated listen. In that regard, I think it suffers from the same problems I sensed in "Rolling Down Cahuenga." If I had to plumb the depths of the track for positive points, I would consider the piano work to be a nice addition. Some of the quieter, atmospheric sections are good as well.

The best result of the Froese-Haslinger tandem is Miracle Mile. If it had been released as a non-soundtrack album, it would be regarded as a classic on the level of Underwater Sunlight. For some reason, it doesn't get enough mention.

When Jerome joined, something happened. I'm afraid the music was not of the same quality on Melrose, Rockoon and especially Turn of the Tides.

Melrose bestowed a discernible placidity, a lack of an edge. It had a very contempo flair, and while that wouldn't necessarily make it a less than memorable album, the chord progressions and sequences weren't very interesting. Paul definitely had one foot out the door, with his ticket punched and ready to fly to California. I wouldn't be surprised if Paul wasn't on some of the Melrose tracks. "Electric Lion" was one of the first things to turn me off about the "new" sound.