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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:41 pm 
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Posts: 102
I've been meaning to post this since December when the album came out, but I haven't been able to find some time to escape myself a little to the forum and post anything.

From the sonic poem series this one is definitely the dud. I've listened to it for more than 50 or 60 times now and it's nothing special or even memorable. I was sad how disappointing this was after waiting for it for a very long time. It sounds like more of the same stuff TD has churned out in the last 4 or 5 years. I absulutely LOVE all TD eras, even the very last albums (sometimes I don't get into some of them, like Views From A Red Train, for example, or I always thought Atem was kinda "meh!", to mention an album from the early stages), but now it was all a bit uninspiring and tired to the point that it made me wonder if maybe the time has finally come for TD to get some REST!!! After all, more than 40 years and 120+ albums (not to mention the countless tours) are never easy to handle for a band, ESPECIALLY for its founder, Edgar Froese, who was responsible for most of the music on this album.

Now, I understand that the sonic poem series never really do any justice to their source materials, and in the 3 previous ones it's forgivable to a point because the music is just wonderful that no one ends up caring about that at all, but this album is just too light to be even considered as something that belongs to the Franz Kafka universe. This just sounds like a Chandra/Red Train/Atomic Seasons crossover. Those albums are brilliant, even if I never got into "Views...", but this one seems like a compilation of their "down" sides. Really, if Edgar had wanted to name this Chandra II, he could've gotten away with it pretty good.

The problem with most of these tracks is that they're always lacking something, be it development, be it force (sometimes they're so loud and noisy, but that's not force), etc. As with a lot of late Edgar's solo work, a track begins pretty good, it stays there without really maturing, he adds a couple of changes which unfortunately make it even worse, to the point of becoming a little mess (sadly this happens to the Thorsten compositions as well) and when he or Thorsten feel like it, they just dissolve it or fade it out quickly to end it abruptly and come on, let's get to tackle the next one, we don't have all day. I know this is dada, but come on, TD has seen clearer days on that field.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate this album, I just think it falls into the mediocre and forgettable category. The tracks that stand out to me are no. 3, The Untouchable Castle, no. 6, Irredeemable Entity, no. 8 and no. 9 to some extent, Desperate Neverending Longing and Surrender and Adaption, and A Place Of Mercy, no. 10, also to some extent. Unfortunately not even these tracks save this album and they also suffer from everything I said before. It was just a plain weak effort. Finnegans Wake, Angel Of The West Window or Island Of The Fay over The Castle any day!! And I expect Chandra II to be on the same situation as The Castle. TD (Edgar) is done, in my opinion!! (hate to admit that, yeah!) They (he) deserve(s) a well and dignified retirement. They're (he's) great, we get it!!!


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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:14 pm 
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Location: Scotland
Must agree with a lot of the above post however I love The Castle..was a slow burner but it's up their with the other 3 in the sonic poem series..all IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 4:24 pm
Posts: 158
Donofrio_TD wrote:
I've been meaning to post this since December when the album came out, but I haven't been able to find some time to escape myself a little to the forum and post anything.

From the sonic poem series this one is definitely the dud. I've listened to it for more than 50 or 60 times now and it's nothing special or even memorable. I was sad how disappointing this was after waiting for it for a very long time. It sounds like more of the same stuff TD has churned out in the last 4 or 5 years. I absulutely LOVE all TD eras, even the very last albums (sometimes I don't get into some of them, like Views From A Red Train, for example, or I always thought Atem was kinda "meh!", to mention an album from the early stages), but now it was all a bit uninspiring and tired to the point that it made me wonder if maybe the time has finally come for TD to get some REST!!! After all, more than 40 years and 120+ albums (not to mention the countless tours) are never easy to handle for a band, ESPECIALLY for its founder, Edgar Froese, who was responsible for most of the music on this album.

Now, I understand that the sonic poem series never really do any justice to their source materials, and in the 3 previous ones it's forgivable to a point because the music is just wonderful that no one ends up caring about that at all, but this album is just too light to be even considered as something that belongs to the Franz Kafka universe. This just sounds like a Chandra/Red Train/Atomic Seasons crossover. Those albums are brilliant, even if I never got into "Views...", but this one seems like a compilation of their "down" sides. Really, if Edgar had wanted to name this Chandra II, he could've gotten away with it pretty good.

The problem with most of these tracks is that they're always lacking something, be it development, be it force (sometimes they're so loud and noisy, but that's not force), etc. As with a lot of late Edgar's solo work, a track begins pretty good, it stays there without really maturing, he adds a couple of changes which unfortunately make it even worse, to the point of becoming a little mess (sadly this happens to the Thorsten compositions as well) and when he or Thorsten feel like it, they just dissolve it or fade it out quickly to end it abruptly and come on, let's get to tackle the next one, we don't have all day. I know this is dada, but come on, TD has seen clearer days on that field.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate this album, I just think it falls into the mediocre and forgettable category. The tracks that stand out to me are no. 3, The Untouchable Castle, no. 6, Irredeemable Entity, no. 8 and no. 9 to some extent, Desperate Neverending Longing and Surrender and Adaption, and A Place Of Mercy, no. 10, also to some extent. Unfortunately not even these tracks save this album and they also suffer from everything I said before. It was just a plain weak effort. Finnegans Wake, Angel Of The West Window or Island Of The Fay over The Castle any day!! And I expect Chandra II to be on the same situation as The Castle. TD (Edgar) is done, in my opinion!! (hate to admit that, yeah!) They (he) deserve(s) a well and dignified retirement. They're (he's) great, we get it!!!


I find it hard to believe that you've listened to an album 50 or 60 times which you have little regard for. I can usually make up my mind after a couple listens.

Agree with you though that this is not a strong release


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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:27 pm 
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just read the telephone book 50 times - still poor, lacks plot ;)

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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:12 pm 
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24db wrote:
just read the telephone book 50 times - still poor, lacks plot ;)



Good cast of characters though ;)


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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:54 am
Posts: 7393
Location: Scotland
T4N63R1N3 DR34M wrote:
24db wrote:
just read the telephone book 50 times - still poor, lacks plot ;)



Good cast of characters though ;)


Aye cos I'm in it... :lol: or used to be at least..


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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 3:25 am
Posts: 102
Steve C wrote:
Donofrio_TD wrote:
I've been meaning to post this since December when the album came out, but I haven't been able to find some time to escape myself a little to the forum and post anything.

From the sonic poem series this one is definitely the dud. I've listened to it for more than 50 or 60 times now and it's nothing special or even memorable. I was sad how disappointing this was after waiting for it for a very long time. It sounds like more of the same stuff TD has churned out in the last 4 or 5 years. I absulutely LOVE all TD eras, even the very last albums (sometimes I don't get into some of them, like Views From A Red Train, for example, or I always thought Atem was kinda "meh!", to mention an album from the early stages), but now it was all a bit uninspiring and tired to the point that it made me wonder if maybe the time has finally come for TD to get some REST!!! After all, more than 40 years and 120+ albums (not to mention the countless tours) are never easy to handle for a band, ESPECIALLY for its founder, Edgar Froese, who was responsible for most of the music on this album.

Now, I understand that the sonic poem series never really do any justice to their source materials, and in the 3 previous ones it's forgivable to a point because the music is just wonderful that no one ends up caring about that at all, but this album is just too light to be even considered as something that belongs to the Franz Kafka universe. This just sounds like a Chandra/Red Train/Atomic Seasons crossover. Those albums are brilliant, even if I never got into "Views...", but this one seems like a compilation of their "down" sides. Really, if Edgar had wanted to name this Chandra II, he could've gotten away with it pretty good.

The problem with most of these tracks is that they're always lacking something, be it development, be it force (sometimes they're so loud and noisy, but that's not force), etc. As with a lot of late Edgar's solo work, a track begins pretty good, it stays there without really maturing, he adds a couple of changes which unfortunately make it even worse, to the point of becoming a little mess (sadly this happens to the Thorsten compositions as well) and when he or Thorsten feel like it, they just dissolve it or fade it out quickly to end it abruptly and come on, let's get to tackle the next one, we don't have all day. I know this is dada, but come on, TD has seen clearer days on that field.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate this album, I just think it falls into the mediocre and forgettable category. The tracks that stand out to me are no. 3, The Untouchable Castle, no. 6, Irredeemable Entity, no. 8 and no. 9 to some extent, Desperate Neverending Longing and Surrender and Adaption, and A Place Of Mercy, no. 10, also to some extent. Unfortunately not even these tracks save this album and they also suffer from everything I said before. It was just a plain weak effort. Finnegans Wake, Angel Of The West Window or Island Of The Fay over The Castle any day!! And I expect Chandra II to be on the same situation as The Castle. TD (Edgar) is done, in my opinion!! (hate to admit that, yeah!) They (he) deserve(s) a well and dignified retirement. They're (he's) great, we get it!!!


I find it hard to believe that you've listened to an album 50 or 60 times which you have little regard for. I can usually make up my mind after a couple listens.

Agree with you though that this is not a strong release


Sure it's possible. I also got it on my iTunes and on my iPod, along with hundreds of other albums from many other bands, TD included, and I listen to them all the time, even when I'm sleeping or doing my laundry, etc. Every time The Castle got played, I really wanted to get into it but just couldn't. I don't know if I've actually listened to it for 50 or 60 times. I never told you to take everything I said literally. So keep making fun of me all of you if you want, I really don't care.


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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:09 am 
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Strange. My favorite of the Sonic Poems (and I like all the others very much).
Wonderful and inventive album, in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:26 pm 
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Posts: 158
Donofrio_TD wrote:
Steve C wrote:
Donofrio_TD wrote:
I've been meaning to post this since December when the album came out, but I haven't been able to find some time to escape myself a little to the forum and post anything.

From the sonic poem series this one is definitely the dud. I've listened to it for more than 50 or 60 times now and it's nothing special or even memorable. I was sad how disappointing this was after waiting for it for a very long time. It sounds like more of the same stuff TD has churned out in the last 4 or 5 years. I absulutely LOVE all TD eras, even the very last albums (sometimes I don't get into some of them, like Views From A Red Train, for example, or I always thought Atem was kinda "meh!", to mention an album from the early stages), but now it was all a bit uninspiring and tired to the point that it made me wonder if maybe the time has finally come for TD to get some REST!!! After all, more than 40 years and 120+ albums (not to mention the countless tours) are never easy to handle for a band, ESPECIALLY for its founder, Edgar Froese, who was responsible for most of the music on this album.

Now, I understand that the sonic poem series never really do any justice to their source materials, and in the 3 previous ones it's forgivable to a point because the music is just wonderful that no one ends up caring about that at all, but this album is just too light to be even considered as something that belongs to the Franz Kafka universe. This just sounds like a Chandra/Red Train/Atomic Seasons crossover. Those albums are brilliant, even if I never got into "Views...", but this one seems like a compilation of their "down" sides. Really, if Edgar had wanted to name this Chandra II, he could've gotten away with it pretty good.

The problem with most of these tracks is that they're always lacking something, be it development, be it force (sometimes they're so loud and noisy, but that's not force), etc. As with a lot of late Edgar's solo work, a track begins pretty good, it stays there without really maturing, he adds a couple of changes which unfortunately make it even worse, to the point of becoming a little mess (sadly this happens to the Thorsten compositions as well) and when he or Thorsten feel like it, they just dissolve it or fade it out quickly to end it abruptly and come on, let's get to tackle the next one, we don't have all day. I know this is dada, but come on, TD has seen clearer days on that field.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate this album, I just think it falls into the mediocre and forgettable category. The tracks that stand out to me are no. 3, The Untouchable Castle, no. 6, Irredeemable Entity, no. 8 and no. 9 to some extent, Desperate Neverending Longing and Surrender and Adaption, and A Place Of Mercy, no. 10, also to some extent. Unfortunately not even these tracks save this album and they also suffer from everything I said before. It was just a plain weak effort. Finnegans Wake, Angel Of The West Window or Island Of The Fay over The Castle any day!! And I expect Chandra II to be on the same situation as The Castle. TD (Edgar) is done, in my opinion!! (hate to admit that, yeah!) They (he) deserve(s) a well and dignified retirement. They're (he's) great, we get it!!!


I find it hard to believe that you've listened to an album 50 or 60 times which you have little regard for. I can usually make up my mind after a couple listens.

Agree with you though that this is not a strong release


Sure it's possible. I also got it on my iTunes and on my iPod, along with hundreds of other albums from many other bands, TD included, and I listen to them all the time, even when I'm sleeping or doing my laundry, etc. Every time The Castle got played, I really wanted to get into it but just couldn't. I don't know if I've actually listened to it for 50 or 60 times. I never told you to take everything I said literally. So keep making fun of me all of you if you want, I really don't care.


I wasn't making fun of you, just pointing out what I thought to be a bit odd in giving an album so many chances to grab you. You and I obviously listen to music in different ways as I rarely listen to music whilst doing other things.
I thought that your piece about The Castle was very perceptive, by the way.


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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Posts: 102
Steve C wrote:
I wasn't making fun of you, just pointing out what I thought to be a bit odd in giving an album so many chances to grab you. You and I obviously listen to music in different ways as I rarely listen to music whilst doing other things.
I thought that your piece about The Castle was very perceptive, by the way.


Oh, thank you kindly! I know you were not making fun of me. I was referring to the other two or three guys when I wrote that. It's always fun to read posts like those.


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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:22 pm 
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Posts: 351
I think that the Castle is one of the best album performed by Tangerine Dream !!!

I love the track "Odd Welcome".

They use new materials for this album !!! :wink:

Bravo to Tangerine Dream !!!!

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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:21 am 
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I also think KAFKA is one of their finest production and don't have to hide behind the other albums of the Poem Series.
It's very subtle and sublime - so different and so electrifying. I think this album can be seen as a kind of turning point where maybe not everyone of us is able to understand Edgar's musical genius...

1. "Approaching Snowy Village": What a beauty! Magic.
2. "Odd Welcome": Great unexpected sounds - energizing!
3. "The Untouchable Castle": Always having the Kafka story in mind: Great calm piece reflecting the track title!
4. "The Apparently Lunatic Hierarchy": Wow effect! Fantastic dark sounds - provoking goosebumps.
5. "Barnabass The Messenger": Great melody and finest guitar work from Edgar.
6. "Irredeemable Entity": Vibrant track - very catchy.
7. "The Implicit Will To Meet Klemm": Superb rhythm and wonderful melody, dark and powerful!
8. "Desperate Neverending Longing": Extraordinary track - hypnotic!
9. "Surrender And Adaption": Tabla supported, wonderful floating melody.
10."A Place Of Mercy": Dreaming away.....trance!


One thing is for sure - if you never face up to the philosophical Kafka story you won't understand the music 100%.
TD music automatically provokes pictures in your head - it's easier to understand the music in connection with the story.

I really hope Edgar will continue for the next 30 years! I'm still curious about his music!


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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:56 pm 
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Quote:
One thing is for sure - if you never face up to the philosophical Kafka story you won't understand the music 100%.
TD music automatically provokes pictures in your head - it's easier to understand the music in connection with the story.


Sorry, but for me that is no. I don't really think the book (or the others in the series) has any bearing on the music - it's just a title for the CD.

It may alternatively have been called "Tangerine Dream - The Stephen King Series", and all the CDs being names after SK novels ;)


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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:32 am 
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T4N63R1N3 DR34M wrote:
I don't really think the book (or the others in the series) has any bearing on the music - it's just a title for the CD.

It may alternatively have been called "Tangerine Dream - The Stephen King Series", and all the CDs being names after SK novels ;)


I really don't think so... Each album of the Sonic Poem Series has a "specific mood" which is (in my opinion) absolutely linked to the book "pictured in music". Each track is about a specific part of the book and is TD's way of picturing the text.
Everybody knows there could be thousands of musical results with the same books. So what ? Here we have TD's interpretations of THESE books, and not Stephen King's books or other books. Otherwise I think it would be an empty (and not interesting) project.

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 Post subject: Re: The Castle
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:46 pm 
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TDludo wrote:
T4N63R1N3 DR34M wrote:
I don't really think the book (or the others in the series) has any bearing on the music - it's just a title for the CD.

It may alternatively have been called "Tangerine Dream - The Stephen King Series", and all the CDs being names after SK novels ;)


I really don't think so... Each album of the Sonic Poem Series has a "specific mood" which is (in my opinion) absolutely linked to the book "pictured in music". Each track is about a specific part of the book and is TD's way of picturing the text.
Everybody knows there could be thousands of musical results with the same books. So what ? Here we have TD's interpretations of THESE books, and not Stephen King's books or other books. Otherwise I think it would be an empty (and not interesting) project.


Yes, but IF the music HAD been titled after Stephen King novels, you would therefore be checking out those novels also ?


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