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 Post subject: TD SHM 2015
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:54 pm 
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If you want excellent Vinyl quality Tangerine Dream on digital the new SHM-CD's or SHM-SACD's of Rubicon, Phaedra, Stratosfear and Ricochet easily fit the bill.

The new SHM-SACD of Rubicon makes the long out of print and expensive SACD sound like a bad MP3. I spent 5 hours comparing and for me the new Stratosfear, Phaedra and Rubicon were better sounding than my UK vinyl. Ricochet seemed equal to the vinyl. All 4 new discs are winners!

Most importantly these new SHM's respect TD's music. They don't try to modernize or revise it. They simply give Vinyl like presentation in a digital format without the pops and ticks of Vinyl.

From what I've read the SHM-CD's will sound better than the SHM-SACD's for most people, as an average CD player offers much better sound quality than an average SACD player. In effect SACD's tend to only sound better than matching CD transfers [all things being equal] if the SACD equipment is high end.

These probably will not be in print for long so those interested should get them now before they become very expensive.

I hope that we get another round of these SHM's for Encore, Force Majeure, Tangram, and Exit. I did not mention Sorcerer as there are likely licensing issues with soundtracks.


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 Post subject: Re: TD SHM 2015
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:11 pm 
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Location: Freiburg, Germany
Thanks for the info, but this Statement would surely benefit from some further elaboration:

an average CD player offers much better sound quality than an average SACD Player


hard to define an "average" SACD Player, of course; since so few are still made, These tend to be in the higher end Segment . might depend on which D%A converters you use - the ones of th eplaxer or of the Receiver etc.


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 Post subject: Re: TD SHM 2015
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:26 pm 
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v


Last edited by Flashpoint on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TD SHM 2015
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:39 pm 
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So is it the story that these SHM CDs play in standard CD players and due to the way they are manufactured and recorded give a better sound quality ?

If so sounds interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: TD SHM 2015
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:44 am 
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sorcerer wrote:
So is it the story that these SHM CDs play in standard CD players and due to the way they are manufactured and recorded give a better sound quality ?

If so sounds interesting.



I am hoping what I wrote does not read that way. The SHM portion is just marketing and advertising folly the more common term for that is the word LIES. It's not like using better vinyl in making LP's, a CD or SACD is a merely storage medium for computer data used in dedicated devices. Sure it's a topic for debate but all who actually understand the technology agree it meaningless. This who do not have that knowledge of course will argue from a point of ignorance.

The selling point of these Tangerine Dream SHM's are the quality of the transfers from the UK master tapes and how Mr Froese's, et al music was not tampered with and was allowed to speak for itself.

Not all "SHM's" were done in the same manner as the Tangerine Dream's so please do not assume they were. Once again the SHM material has nothing to do with the sound quality, the well done transfers (remastering) from the pristine UK masters is what makes the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: TD SHM 2015
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:17 am 
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Location: Scotland
Avoid Ricochet. It has been ruined by bad mastering on pt2..the other three are superb. The best cd versions out there.


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 Post subject: Re: TD SHM 2015
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:23 pm 
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Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Flashpoint wrote:
sorcerer wrote:
So is it the story that these SHM CDs play in standard CD players and due to the way they are manufactured and recorded give a better sound quality ?

If so sounds interesting.



I am hoping what I wrote does not read that way. The SHM portion is just marketing and advertising folly the more common term for that is the word LIES. It's not like using better vinyl in making LP's, a CD or SACD is a merely storage medium for computer data used in dedicated devices. Sure it's a topic for debate but all who actually understand the technology agree it meaningless. This who do not have that knowledge of course will argue from a point of ignorance.

The selling point of these Tangerine Dream SHM's are the quality of the transfers from the UK master tapes and how Mr Froese's, et al music was not tampered with and was allowed to speak for itself.

Not all "SHM's" were done in the same manner as the Tangerine Dream's so please do not assume they were. Once again the SHM material has nothing to do with the sound quality, the well done transfers (remastering) from the pristine UK masters is what makes the difference.

So glad to see someone else say this. The only thing that SHMs could possibly offer in the way of an improvement is a lower incidence of read errors, if even that. That's it.


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 Post subject: Re: TD SHM 2015
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:53 pm 
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Sfearical Sequence wrote:
Flashpoint wrote:
sorcerer wrote:
So is it the story that these SHM CDs play in standard CD players and due to the way they are manufactured and recorded give a better sound quality ?

If so sounds interesting.



I am hoping what I wrote does not read that way. The SHM portion is just marketing and advertising folly the more common term for that is the word LIES. It's not like using better vinyl in making LP's, a CD or SACD is a merely storage medium for computer data used in dedicated devices. Sure it's a topic for debate but all who actually understand the technology agree it meaningless. This who do not have that knowledge of course will argue from a point of ignorance.

The selling point of these Tangerine Dream SHM's are the quality of the transfers from the UK master tapes and how Mr Froese's, et al music was not tampered with and was allowed to speak for itself.

Not all "SHM's" were done in the same manner as the Tangerine Dream's so please do not assume they were. Once again the SHM material has nothing to do with the sound quality, the well done transfers (remastering) from the pristine UK masters is what makes the difference.

So glad to see someone else say this. The only thing that SHMs could possibly offer in the way of an improvement


You are 100% correct.

Most post 2000* CD players, even the low priced ones, and all SACD players perform play back by using read-ahead (buffering) not real time conversion. The data is read from the discs and buffered into memory for smooth uninterrupted play back. The only way in which errors such as reads/seeks, CRC, P1, P2, and jitter will affect sound is when the data is actually missing. This will results in skipping-silences or ear piercing digital noise or static. Anyone who says it will result in different EQ, Sound Stage depth, Volume levels, brittleness, thinness|absence of bass - one; does not understand the technology - two; thinks digital music is same as vinyl and is too stubborn to change their mind and admit they were wrong - three; has unknown reasons they are claiming differences (people are weird) - four; gullible to the point they will believe all the recording company marketing (very common for people to believe whatever they see advertised) - five; not someone who's opinion on sound should be trusted.

A notation: older CD players may have issues with the SHM-CD's as the reflective layer is lower than that of a standard aluminum or a gold CD. Those players also may not play back CD-R's.

I do want to mention this new SHM-SACD of Rubicon to be is vastly better than the 2004 SACD at every level. The 2004 SACD sound's like a low end recording done from bad tapes compared to the new SHM-SACD. I am hoping every one here is able to get a copy before they all disappear and sell for $100 or more. Stratosfear is at the same sound quality level as Rubicon. Phaedra and Ricochet is only small bit behind Rubicon . There is a small technical issue with p2 of Ricochet in 2 short spots that I believe were on the original Virgin CD [the last disc made from the UK masters]. Seems to me it is an issue that is on the UK master tapes that was digitally corrected via computer for the Definitive remaster. Since these TD SHM's are pure unaltered transfers all that sound that is on the UK Masters in present on the CD or SACD. I see that as good thing. Those who do not may not want to purchase Ricochet. Does the issue exist on the actual overall master tapes , Mr Froese's estate now owns them. Mr Froese seemed to be against letting the record company's have possession of them. Nor can I blame him. Therefore it does not appear they will be used for any future remaster.


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 Post subject: Re: TD SHM 2015
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:14 pm 
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Okay I just bought Rubycon on "Platinum SHM" CD. Given the price, this one should better be good ...


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 Post subject: Re: TD SHM 2015
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:25 pm 
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Got my Rubycon SHM CD today and I agree it sounds more like the vinyl. I like it!

Compared to the "Definite Edition", the new mastering sounds more spacious, has a bit more bass and lacks the (digital?) harshness of the Definite Edition in its higher frequencies. All in all to me the 2015 mastering is more pleasant to listen to than the old mastering.

Good job from Mr. Manabu Matsumura! By the way, he also treated us to one short additional Mellotron flute note in the fadeout of Part Two (Pt. 2 is 3 seconds longer now, 17:37 instead of the previous 17:34) ...


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