Thief remaster/reissue error

[goozer]

I'll just get to the point. After waiting an extra 2 months for this disc, I am more than a little aggravated that there is a mastering error at 7:10 into the track Diamond Diary lasting for nearly 2 seconds in the R channel — it sounds like a tape dropout one would hear when playing a damaged tape (not total silence, but rather a choppy sound!) This is inexcusable! I can't even listen to the rest of this disc. I will be returning this piece of trash ASAP!

Addendum: Curiosity got the better of me, so I listened to the rest of the disc. You'll all be thrilled to learn that there is also a similar problem at 2:48 in Trap Feeling, and slight fluctuations for the first :25 of Igneous. Unbelievable.

goozer

[Insvims]

Uplifting!

[multivit72]

when did you the receice the CD? nothign has arrived here yet, but may take a while from the US to the black forrest...

[GlynRichards]

That's so long ago, I can't even remember if I ordered it.

[multivit72]

That's so long ago, I can't even remember if I ordered it.

same here, I had to dig through my emails, but in fact I did...

[tdream4ever]

I haven't ordered the remastered cd yet. I think I will wait and see what happens. Probably nothing. These douche bags these days don't care as long as they get their $$'s.

[mikewp]

Yep... just checked my copy and the errors are there. Very disappointing

[goozer]

And now for an update, (dis)courtesy of Robin at Perseverance:

>Dear xxxxxxxxxx,
>
>Do you actually hear all this, or are you just copying what someone else posted on the Internet?
>
>Robin Esterhammer
>President & CEO
>Perseverance Records

My edited reply: His response is curious, as there is now more than one person who has confirmed that the errors are there — and I must assume that he hasn't bothered to listen to the CD to confirm this for himself before he decided to cast aspersions. This kind of customer service is pathetic, and will be shared on every forum that I am a member of as an example of what not to do when one's product is defective.

None of these issues are present on any of the other releases of Thief, including the Virgin Definitive Edition CD. So one wonders about the "master" used for this release.

[Jon]

A pity about the sound errors. As a matter of fact, this is not the first time Perseverance Records has been accused of this kind of mistakes. Also on other of their soundtrack releases this has been a matter.

I'll better stick with my Thief vinyl...

[multivit72]

any news on that front? I have not even received my copy yet....

[GlynRichards]

No, neither have I!!!!

[Flashpoint]

Mr. Froese does not allow the original master tapes he owns to be used for remastering TD albums. He has mentioned this in interviews.

Based on the sound quality and defects of the new Perseverance Thief CD remaster, it appears they used high generation tapes which are compromised. Personally I prefer CD's made from the original master tapes or 1st generation safety copy and not from Nth high gen tape copies that Esoteric and Perseverance have used for their remasters. The 1995 Virgin Definitive Edition also was not made from the original master tapes, but at least was a somewhat low gen tape.

If you want a excellent sounding Thief without the bad defects and not good sound of the Perseverance get the original Virgin CD. It is the only one made from the original master tapes. The original Virgin CD on eBay costs USA $15-$25 and the remaster is USA $10-$15 so really not a large difference. Although it is a few USA dollars more, in my opinion it is better to have great sounding CD that plays properly than to waste money on a poor sounding new remaster that has defects. Or get the Vinyl which the original Virgin CD does compares favorably.

Not sure when the worldwide record company's first started the money making myth that remasters are always better? When about 75% of the time at least for Tangerine Dream I feel they are not. Caveat emptor

[epsilon75]

I think this release has turned out to be rather farcical. Some people paid 4 months ago for this product,and have still not received it. Perseverance records by name,but not by nature

[Schmoelling in wonderland]

Hi Flashpoint,

How do you know that the 1995 remaster of THIEF is "not made from the Masters of Safety but at least was a somewhat low gen tape" ?.

How can Virgin can do a remaster from a low source ?

Most of the time, when a real remaster is done, it's done with the Master (as you call the Master of Safety) ?

Also, do you mean that the original THIEF cd sound better than the 1995 remaster ?

Thanks for the infos !

[Flashpoint]

Hi Flashpoint,

How do you know that the 1995 remaster of THIEF is "not made from the Masters of Safety but at least was a somewhat low gen tape" ?.

How can Virgin can do a remaster from a low source ?

Most of the time, when a real remaster is done, it's done with the Master (as you call the Master of Safety) ?

Also, do you mean that the original THIEF cd sound better than the 1995 remaster ?

Thanks for the infos !

Masters of Safety - spelling error it is supposed to be Master OR Safety tapes. You are correct most of the time it is done with those tapes. But the recent Estoeric and Perseverance remasters were made from old high gen analog tapes. Apparently they do not have even have 1610 digital dubs made from the masters in the 80's ?? So Thief for example was made from a High Gen tapes that sufferer from damage/decay due to time. The bad results of Perseverance's finished Thief CD prove that.

How do you know that the 1995 remaster of THIEF is "not made from the Masters or Safety but at least was a somewhat low gen tape" ?.
The sound tells me. It has some tape based replicative frequency loss that was not present in the older CD versions and then they crudely tried (and failed) to cover up the the distant and hissy high gen sound with dynamic multi-band compression and noise reduction. Although I guess it's possible that the needles Noise Reduction they applied maked it sound like different tapes were in use? True professionals in the industry have not used noise reduction in 20 years as no matter how carefully it's done it always removes high ends frequencies + music and leaves behind digital sound artifacts.

How can Virgin can do a remaster from a low source ?
They probably have 1610 copies from their 1980's CD efforts. Virgin owns those copies. They have no obligation or financial gain in loaning them to other labels like Esoteric and Perseverance.

Therefore Mr. Froese would be the only source for better tapes, in his case the original masters, to labels like Esoteric and Perseverance and he has stated he does not let anyone use his masters. I am sure there are also many legal machinations at work as well but rather than speculate we can tell as fact from the overall bad sounding post-Virgin results that inferior high gen tapes are being used. Which is probably why these labels put so much effort into the linear notes. As for me personally I care only about the sound and not a few pages of "pretty" words on paper that I can read on the web anyhow.

Also, do you mean that the original THIEF CD sound better than the 1995 remaster ?
That of course is my opinion. I think the 1995 is much better sounding than the new Perseverance for example. But the original CD sounds close the Vinyl. The 1995 has a lowered roof due to the possible use of noise reduction. The original has a spacious wide sound real life sound which as I said is close to the vinyl and the 1995 Definitive and especially the more recent remasters are artificial and very cold.

My opinion for those who want a good sounding Thief is, if not too late, use your money on the original CD or the vinyl. In fact even the 1995 Virgin Definitive Edition is a much better purchase choice than this newest remaster which likely was transferred from damaged high gen tapes as it has those types of audible defects.